Quite Different Mechanics
What’s in a Lootbox? EA Says “Surprise Mechanics, Quite Ethical”
Kerry Hopkins, EA’s VP of Legal and Government affairs (and yes, apparently that’s an actual position within EA) said before a UK parliament session that loot boxes in video games are surprise mechanics that aren’t any different from Kinder eggs or from any other “Surprise!” factor product. AS Hopkins put it, lootboxes are also very fun and very ethical experiences in the way EA has implemented them: “We do think the way that we have implemented these kinds of mechanics – and FIFA of course is our big one, our FIFA Ultimate Team and our packs – is actually quite ethical and quite fun, quite enjoyable to people”. Never mind that a government-commissioned study on the matter, “Young People and Gambling 2018 Report” claiming that 450,000 UK kids, aged between 11 and 16, bet regularly.
Hopkins explained further saying that “We do agree with the UK gambling commission, the Australian gambling commission, and many other gambling commissions that they aren’t gambling, and we also disagree that there’s evidence that shows it leads to gambling. Instead we think it’s like many other products that people enjoy in a healthy way, and like the element of surprise.” I’m sorry about the meme, but I just had to do it. But I feel tempted to circle back to the job position for VP of Legal and Government Affairs. I mean doesn’t that just sound like something an evil company would have?
87 Comments on What’s in a Lootbox? EA Says “Surprise Mechanics, Quite Ethical”
Seriously, this company and its people. I wonder how they sleep at night. There is a special place in hell, I hope.
As for the job position, ironically most bigger companies have something of the sort. Its called lobbying and its a cancer that needs to be eradicated, not just in gaming.
They need a VP of Legal and Government Affairs to fight the laws of other countries like Belgium that actually don’t allow their children to be exploited and involved in illegal gambling. EA’s new Dept also is in charge of encouraging the citizens of such countries to protest until EA is allowed to run their illegal operation unhindered in said countries.
If you can buy loot boxes with real world money and take a chance on getting something rare which you can sell for more real world money than you paid for it then how can that not be called gambling?
zlobby Sounds like gambling with extra steps. And always online conditions 😀
EA Sales Pitch
“Here, take this digital item’ You can only access it with our key that you will never truly own or control. We have more digital items as well! You will never truly know what’s inside them until you buy! Not good enough? Fine, how about this, we release a new version of the game every year making all your previous purchases worthless!”
“Too rich for your blood then? No problem, we have EA Access, where you can get an equally vague selection of games to buy and never truly own and any time of the day we may change the rules entirely! Best of all, its super cheap to own nothing, and you can STILL buy lootboxes as you please!”
And people defend this saying its a great concept, mind. Main argument: ‘its cheap!’ :banghead:
Vayra86 And always online conditions 😀
EA Sales Pitch
“Here, take this digital item’ You can only access it with our key that you will never truly own or control. We have more digital items as well! You will never truly know what’s inside them until you buy! Not good enough? Fine, how about this, we release a new version of the game every year making all your previous purchases worthless!”
“Too rich for your blood then? No problem, we have EA Access, where you can get an equally vague selection of games to buy and never truly own and any time of the day we may change the rules entirely! Best of all, its super cheap to own nothing, and you can STILL buy lootboxes as you please!”
And people defend this saying its a great concept, mind. Most adults that I know don’t defend EA’s practices very much. It’s mostly the naive kids that fall for such nonsense and that’s the problem. EA is exploiting children’s naivete. It’s sickening imo.
Sounds like someone stumbled across the movie “Thank You for Smoking” and tried to spit out their own PR crap.
“a UK parliament session that loot boxes in video games are surprise mechanics that aren’t any different from Kinder eggs or from any other “Surprise!” factor product ”
“We do think the way that we have implemented these kinds of mechanics. is actually quite ethical and quite fun, quite enjoyable to people”.
My kids like getting the occasional Kinder Egg. They think the toys that come in them are nice to have (for about 10 seconds), but they mainly get them because they like the candy. They spend more time eating the candy in them then they do playing with the tiny toy that comes in them. A Kinder Egg is not the same as a loot box. Loot boxes have abysmal chances to obtain “high end” or “highly sought after” items. After someone drops X amount of money and finally gets something really good/rare, they feel awesome! They figure if they spend X amount again they’ll land something else awesome. sounds like slot machines to me. Folks sit and dump money into slot machines and eventually win big. They love that feeling so they continue to dump more money into the slot machines in hopes of getting that winning high again.
I personally see no difference between the changes you have at getting high, quality items in a loot box (a jackpot win) and winning big (jackpot) on slot machines. But what do I know. I’m not government nor a high paid employee with a stupid title at a large company, so I guess I don’t know what I’m talking about. All I know is that I don’t let my kids take advantage of loot boxes in games. We don’t have consoles and any iPad/Kindle we have do not have active credit cards tied to them, so no accidental purchases can be made when the kids play games on them.
64K Most adults that I know don’t defend EA’s practices very much. It’s mostly the naive kids that fall for such nonsense and that’s the problem. EA is exploiting children’s naivete. It’s sickening imo. Well, I frequent a Dutch site called Tweakers.net and its full of adults and 18-20+ and that is the sentiment you read a lot. Short term gain vs zero notion of how this will ass rape the industry AND consumers at large.
EA is actively trying to mold PC/console gaming towards the mobile-based gaming cash cow industry. Repetitive pay-per-use content with no substance and filled with psychological trickery to keep players hooked. EA is for gaming what the crystal meth dealer is for junkies.
“Surprise Mechanics, Quite Ethical”
Translation: Cheats that you can buy. Not so ethical, but profitable.
john_ “Surprise Mechanics, Quite Ethical”
Translation: Cheats that you can buy. Not so ethical, but profitable.
JMO of course. It used to be that a lot of games came with cheat codes where people could cheat if they wanted to. Now they don’t come with cheat codes because the Publishers want to sell the cheats with microtransactions. For people that want to cheat I always recommend a trainer. Not all of them are free but they are cheaper to buy than a lot of microtransactions and possibly denying the Publisher the easy extra income of microtransactions will one day discourage this behavior.
I wonder what the smell was like in Parliament House while that statement was being made. They must have needed hip-boots and nose-plugs.
It’s technically not gambling because gambling in the traditional sense involves putting money down in the hopes of winning a reward with value. In EA’s case, they are selling a random reward, but it has no definable cash value. It’s essentially following the same psychological principle that makes gambling so addictive, but they get around it by making the “payout” a part of the game, and that payout is technically not even your property, based on how games are licensed.
They also indirectly prey on minors knowing there are clueless or permissive parents out there. Even the responsible parents pay a price before they realize this is a thing their kid has done and manage to shut it down. So yeah, what EA is doing might be legal, but I wouldn’t call it ethical. They’ve essentially built a gambling system where the player never really wins, but never realizes it because it passes as an experience.
WOW, F*uck EA’s excuses in f*ck Fuck EA, As a parent EA’s DEAD to me, well pretty much was before but digging a whole now you just berried your self’s. F*ck You too EA . And i truly hope that other parents do the same.
Compareing Kinda Egg to their shit loot boxes, F U, and not the same as you still get some thing with a Kinda Egg well unless you buy the US version which sucks HA.
This is the most indefensible legal bullcrap I have ever heard.
I hope the bill to ban loot boxes and microtransactions passes Congress because EA deserves every kick to the balls they get.
steve360 This is the most indefensible legal bullcrap I have ever heard.
I hope the bill to ban loot boxes and microtransactions passes Congress because EA deserves every kick to the balls they get. In case anyone isn’t familiar with the bill here is an article about it:
tbh I don’t think it’s going to go anywhere. The ESA (Entertainment Software Association) already points to countries like Ireland, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom who have already determined that loot boxes do not constitute gambling.
Raevenlord . lootboxes are gambling is also very fun and very ethical experiences in the way EA has casinos have implemented them. EA: “We’re a casino now!”
Seriously, how is a lootbox any different than interacting with a slot machine? Vayra86 Seriously, this company and its people. I wonder how they sleep at night. There is a special place in hell, I hope. Even mass murderers with dozens of witnesses get defense attorneys. Not a position I envy.
64K In case anyone isn’t familiar with the bill here is an article about it:
tbh I don’t think it’s going to go anywhere. The ESA (Entertainment Software Association) already points to countries like Ireland, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom who have already determined that loot boxes do not constitute gambling. I think the UK is a problem within itself. Ignoring brexit for a second. There was a time when highstreets were dominated by ‘bookies’ places like Paddy Power, Ladbrokes, William Hill etc etc and the UK Gov has been slow to tackle them as well as the ‘slot machines’ that a lot of them have inside. Its like they want you to be in debt so you end up dying in the gutter with nothing to your name or your family.
lexluthermiester Yes, but the United States has a particular disdain for gambling and it’s very heavily regulated. Lootbox’s might be viewed as “chance gamble” mechanism’s. That bill could happen. True. Germany is relatively lax with gambling in comparison. We have ads for online betting sites and online casinos on TV.
We also have female breasts shown uncensored around noon or rather any time, if it is needed for the topic or entertainment and not the obvious Main Focus.
But out movies and Games need to be cut because the US Originals are often too violent for our censors. Or have Nazi stuff in them
Back to topic, I really would wish those lootboxes would disappear.
Quite Different Mechanics
A game’s core mechanic is the action of play: the activity players do over and over again in the game, like jumping, collecting, or shooting.
The qualities of the game space make certain core mechanics more effective than others.
What’s on for today:
-Objects such as dice, rubber bands, paper clips etc.
-One copy of the “Reflection worksheet” per student
What’s attached:
Warm Up – 10 minutes
Discuss – 10 minutes
Brainstorm – 15 minutes
Design – 15 minutes
Reflect – 10 minutes
1. Have students identify the main action of the following games based on these examples:
The main action, or core mechanic, in Chess is moving pieces; in Tag, the core mechanic is running and chasing; in MarioKart, it is driving and crashing; in Pokemon, it is collecting and battling. What are the core mechanics of these games:
Tetris (possible answers: stacking, rotating)
Scrabble (possible answers: creating words,
spelling, linking letters)
Musical Chairs (possible answers: walking, sitting)
Halo (possible answers: running, shooting)
Wii Tennis (possible answers: hitting balls, volleying)
Dance Dance Revolution (possible answers: beat matching, dancing)
Guitar hero (possible answers: matching chords, beat matching, playing guitar)
Zelda (series) (possible answers: questing, finding treasure, exploring)
Discuss
10 minutes
Lead a discussion based on the following questions:
What are some core mechanics you have come across in Gamestar Mechanic? (Possible answers: collecting, shooting, jumping, walking, racing, hiding, matching.)
Does the core mechanic have to be fun for the game to be fun?
What are some other words that can be used to describe core mechanic? (Possible answers: play pattern, action, activity, main job.)
What are some factors that affect the core mechanic of a game? (Possible answers: the design of the space, the type of avatar, the types of enemies, what items you add to the game, the idea for the game.)
Brainstorm
15 minutes
1. Divide students into small groups.
2. Give each group a material such as set of paper clips, dice, coins and tokens, rubber bands, a ball of string, Silly Putty, etc. The materials you choose should have a distinct set of core mechanics, or patterns of action they are able to perform. For example, the core mechanics associated with rubber bands could include, snapping, stretching, grouping, shooting.
3. Ask each group to spend some time playing around with their material and list as many mechanics as they can come up with for it. Teams are competing to come up with the longest list.
4. Have each group share their list with the rest of the class.
5. Have each group divide their list into core mechanics that they think can be recreated in Gamestar Mechanic and those they believe cannot.
6. Post the lists for reference during the next part of class.
1. Divide the class in half.
2. Have each student in Group A select one or more core mechanics from the master list they just created and design a space in Gamestar Mechanic to support it. Have group B design a space in Gamestar Mechanic and then consult the list for a core mechanic appropriate to that space.
3. Students should understand that in Gamestar, core mechanics are tied to four related conditions:
behavior of sprites (avatar and enemy movement styles)
qualities of the game space (scrolling or static space, boundry conditions, levels of gravity)
kinds of items that might be placed in the space (items, blasters, doors, keys, etc.)
associated system sprites (frag counter, point counter, etc.)
To model this understanding have students write about the core mechanic in their game, describing the core action and how it was created.
How did it go?
Were students able to identify the core mechanic of a game?
Did they experiment with the different kinds of core mechanics certain physical materials give rise to?
Did they make a connection between the physical properties of materials and sprite parameters?
To what extent were they able to invent core mechanics for a digital and non-digital space?
Quite Different Mechanics
I’m using the 560 GTX Ti too (Asus version). Had some money put aside in case it wouldn’t suffice but so far it seems like it’ll suffice for another generation.
Though, mine is supported by a 4th gen i3-4330 @ 3.5 GHz and 16 GB DDR3 @ 1600 MHz. That’s a bit newer than the GPU itself.
Standard settings are around medium (some high, some low) and are working properly. Might have to tune it down a bit when I get to enter more crowded areas, but since I don’t necessarily need ultra settings I’m fine with that. From what it has to offer I’ll surely give it another run though once I happen to upgrade my rig the next time.
Lizardmen, Dark Elves and Chaos
Undead and/or Dwarfs I think.
I just can’t get hyped for this game. I love Total War and Warhammer. But I just have this horrible gut feeling that this game is going to suck. I just don’t think they can pull it off. I hope it won’t be a train wreck, but I feel it will be.
Anyone else?
I expect it to be DLC-heavy, because that’s how games are made these days. Doesn’t equal screwing up the game in my eyes because it’s an annoying business-model and not game-specific.
If you’re going to asume the game will suck, you can’t be disappointed though. If it turns out to be fine you can still be happy about it.
What story have you ever seen in a Total war game? It is set in a historical setting. The characters revelant are there with background written about them. But the rest is left up to you. The “past” is scripted in to affect diplomacy but again.. it’s left up to you how you wish to play.
Seems people keep thinking that they are going to get an epic story because I’ve seen so many comments about people saying that they MUST put such and such in to be a valid warhammer story or w/e. And if it’s not that then they are expecting table top tranfered to pc. Hey look a person who doesn’t know what Warhammer is lol
This is warhammer, not total war lol
Nope, it’s Total War in a Warhammer setting, not the other way around. Which means they’ll take a snapshot of the Warhammer timeline, design the map accordingly, give you the units and buildings and some diplomatic affinities/grudges and everything else will develop based on TW mechanics which means the world will change depending on what you or the AI will do. So basically you start screwing up any (historical or warhammer) timeline starting with turn 1 of the game. It has been like this in any TW so far. For example it’s possible to conquer Great Britain with Egypt in Rome while being allied to god knows who. I expect similar ridiculous combinations in this part.
